# **CBF Session – April 7**
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Hello!
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Hello!
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I had to decide if I was… Muted or not.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **How are you doing it, Tasha?
**Natasha Beauvais: **I'm good!
**Natasha Beauvais: **I'm at the gym, and I'm with my son, so I'm gonna start by listening, and then…
**Natasha Beauvais: **chime in later.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Wait, did you, did you get a chance to see what we covered last week?
**Natasha Beauvais: **I did not. I took all of last week off, and I really did not catch up on anything.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Okay, so that might be, the first, maybe, 30 minutes of the call we went over. I put together, like, a… basically a comprehensive revenue cycle management, like, from start to finish, and common pain points and places.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So it might be worth going back through that.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So… Sure, yeah.
**Natasha Beauvais: **Thank you for the tip.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, and if you… that… the, link for that… that attachment should have been with last week's…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **email with the reminder call. So if you have any problem getting at that, let me know.
**Natasha Beauvais: **Okay, thanks, thanks for the look there.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah Hello, Charu! Hello, Vinika!
**Charu Sawhney: **Hi, how are you?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Good! How are you doing?
**Charu Sawhney: **Good, surviving.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Good! Oh, I should have introduced… Natasha's in the background, but, Natasha, we have a new
**Jennie Eckstrom: **a new joine to this. I don't know if you met, Charlie Sawi, at,
**Jennie Eckstrom: **during that week that Peter was doing things, but she is an internist, who started her own practice in, Austin, right?
**Charu Sawhney: **Absolutely.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get all the things.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **It's okay.
**Charu Sawhney: **Natasha and I spoke at some of the breakouts, if she remembers me.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Oh, cool.
**Natasha Beauvais: **Yeah, yeah, I remember, yeah, we were… we were together after some of the chats.
**Natasha Beauvais: **Good to see you, Tara.
**Charu Sawhney: **Thanks, you too.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Alright, do you guys have a good Easter weekend?
**Charu Sawhney: **Yep.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Lots of…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Food and traditions are just a down day, a down weekend. The sun finally came to Montana, which was lovely.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So… Let's see… Alright, well… So, how has the week gone?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **For you guys. Vinika, I know that you probably have been bonding with this a little bit, because you dropped a little message into WhatsApp, but…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **What things… maybe what are some, like, wins or some things that have popped out as…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Maybe we'll find a little bit more structure with this.
**Vineka: **I, I let the billers and the biller and the audit biller lead, and
**Vineka: **they, it was a little kind of disorganized, and they came up with four, things that were missing, and, I let them go, let them go, and then, when they were about to transition, I was like.
**Vineka: **Well, hold on a minute. I have found 51 missing, so let's talk about
**Vineka: **what happened here, and… and here, not… not going through all of it, and not wanting to be, like, bickering, but…
**Vineka: **I'm like…
**Vineka: **yeah, we're not… yes, they have, like, a tracker that they want to implement for the future. I'm like, that's all good for the future, but I'm not going to sit on
**Vineka: **If we just multiply the 51 by 200, we're talking about 10,000
**Vineka: **10K of missed revenue in one month? No, I'm not sitting on that, so you guys kind of had to figure it out, and I'm going to keep
**Vineka: **pushing until it's solved, no matter whether it's looked, you know, like, however it's considered, and then I was trying to get them to see, like, okay, so what… why do you think that wasn't… but…
**Vineka: **she wasn't in that space to understand yet, and I think they were just looking at missing invoices, which was 4. I'm looking at everything, I want to know all of it, not just missing invoices, but is the… maybe just a… maybe the money has already hit my bank, and I don't know because it's not there, but that's an issue, too, because the numbers don't reflect on that, so…
**Vineka: **I think it's gonna take some time.
**Vineka: **For me, it's just, like, the patience of it, but also patience and push, patience and push.
**Vineka: **We don't miss the timelines, but we're also kind of, like, trying to work in a productive manner.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **When you found those 50, where were those in the process, in sort of that… that… that whole cycle?
**Vineka: **They were all over, so some of them had some missing invoices, some were, like, that's… that's what I want to know, like.
**Vineka: **they didn't even get to that. I think they just stuck to a report of missing invoice, because I keep bringing it up, but I've also said, like, we need to find out every little thing of the process, not just… missing invoices is
**Vineka: **Part of it.
**Vineka: **So they need to come up, and she has actually come up with another report, but, if… so I'm… I was trying to get
**Vineka: **like, so why was it missed then? And she didn't know. Well…
**Vineka: **go figure out, I guess. And then some others, well, I suspect it was a payment posting issue, because I'm already getting the EFT, so it's not… it's showing us 51 missing, but there's probably a lot there that's already been filled, which is good. They haven't posted it yet, which will reflect on the ER numbers.
**Vineka: **And then, I think some, I don't know whether it was in a clean claim, I'm waiting for them. So finally, the one of them was like, so why are you finding that? I'm like, right, like…
**Vineka: **Exactly, yeah, so I'm… I'm… I'm doing it the long way.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Right?
**Vineka: **But we want to eventually find the shortcut way to do that, but it might take a combination of both until we get there, because…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Hmm.
**Vineka: **At least my… the method we're using, where we're listing everybody there, everyone is accounted for.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Right.
**Vineka: **And then, I'm thinking now we might need two sets of reports.
**Vineka: **because the other report she sent me, and she asked, do you think we could use that, was… I checked with one of the months, and it had everybody except one, and that person was a missing… missing invoice. So I think if we can find both, we might get an answer, but then I think just kind of, like.
**Vineka: **Do it, and then verify.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, actually.
**Vineka: **but just don't stay still, because, as you said, like, I don't know in the process, I need you to tell me where it fell off. Like, is it not a clean claim, because there is an invoice, or was it, like, a posting issue? Was it you send it to the wrong insurance, because in between patients change insurances? I don't know.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Right. So, do you have… so, this sounds like right now what I'm hearing is sort of 3…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Probably 3 rep… reports, or maybe 3 columns that I would track. One is the…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Does the claim get… do they have an encounter?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Of some sort, whether it's Fravato, whether it's TMS, whether it's… They're,
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Seeing you. So that's the encounter.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Is a claim getting generated from that encounter?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And is payment being posted? Now, granted, there's the steps in between, but those are… so if you have a report that can say all the encounters.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **We have a report that all the claims
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And a report for all the postings. You might not have posted, because they're coming from different sources.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **But that may be the place, because it sounds like maybe right now your reports aren't picking up everything, so who's falling through the cracks?
**Vineka: **Yes.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Why, but at least it gives you a common language to start talking from.
**Vineka: **Right, exactly.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah.
**Vineka: **I also started putting my codes in after each visit.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah?
**Vineka: **I built a consultation code, because I've never done that before, where I would just be like, yeah, yeah, it's…
**Vineka: **good medicine to talk to each other, but I actually build it, and I build the highest one. Because I did do the research, and it… and, like, it can include the research and the amount of decision-making involved, so…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Is that just if you do it on the date of service? Is that how that goes?
**Vineka: **I didn't even see the patient, I just… the person asked to talk to me. It's the patient's oncologist.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Oh!
**Vineka: **And, then they, I asked them for
**Vineka: **you know, like, a release of information, get the progress note, reviewed all of that, checked the drug interactions and the timing of… if you're doing chemo, when can you do spravato? We discussed it, and he didn't have any of the, you know, cardiac side effects or.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Is it cool?
**Vineka: **So, we decided… and then I'm seeing the patient this week, but I asked, like, well, I asked Claude and chat if I could still… is that billable at all, if I… I haven't seen the patient, and it's yes, because the patient gave their authorization.
**Vineka: **It is a discussion amongst two treating providers for his care. It is billable as a consultation.
**Vineka: **As a phone consultation, but still.
**Charu Sawhney: **You're welcome.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah, that's… I saw that in this, Medicare, like, fee book, and I was wondering that, too. I was like, sometimes I'll… it's not often, but sometimes whenever you do talk to another specialist, you spend, like, 30 minutes, and I'm like, I wonder if this is somehow billable.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I've always done it on the date of service, and then you can… you can lump it in with time.
**Charu Sawhney: **It just depends on when they call you back, right?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **But if you're doing longitudinal care, you could certainly do that. So if you're either doing chronic care management, or you're doing APCM, you don't have to bill the time, but if you're doing, you know, chronic care management, you could certainly
**Jennie Eckstrom: **do that piece, but I haven't… we don't ever… I would never… I don't think I would use that code, per se.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So I can't speak to that, but that's awesome.
**Vineka: **We'll see, I mean, I don't… on average, it's about $70, from what I'm looking, anywhere between $70 to $100 for that, so…
**Vineka: **If it comes, great.
**Vineka: **Then I want to call somebody else, because I was just gonna call for.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Peek, I love you.
**Vineka: **Yeah. Guys, are there more to call? Because…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Stop!
**Vineka: **We were doing the decision anyway, like, I'm talking about it to my staff anyway, and like Dr. Una says, if I'm rubbing two brain cells, this is a visit, or this is a billable something.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Well, there's definitely…
**Charu Sawhney: **That is hilarious!
**Jennie Eckstrom: **No.
**Vineka: **Dr. Una?
**Charu Sawhney: **Man…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Well, it is. It's that whole idea that we are doing so much more medical decision-making than we ever give ourselves credit for. And so, yeah, I have learned… I have learned to…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **haul people back in when I am doing other stuff, or, again, if… that's… that's sort of, like, the benefit of doing the longitudinal care, because I have another way to account for my time.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So…
**Vineka: **I just looked it up, 99449 is what I… and it says in the… Description into professional telephone consultation.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I, I… especially on that, where you are doing a conversation with a… specifically the oncologist for a medically complex… and it's your patient.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Because they're coming to you for spravato. Now, that, to me, makes a ton of sense. You're coordinating that care and timing that care.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **No.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I mean, those are definitely things that I would, like I said, if I had somebody who is on chronic care management, that I would bill for that time.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So, I just… I would bill it under, you know, CCM codes, not… not that one, but yeah, absolutely.
**Vineka: **And I'm seeing the patient this week, tomorrow, actually, so I'll get… I'll bill another visit.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, I think that was the thing that I didn't see, was that they were a established patient, because they're your patient getting bravado.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I love it. And how have you done with your telehealth codes? That was the other thing you were gonna put.
**Vineka: **I had my biller list all of them, and she missed two. I'm like, yep, gotta put those in, and it's like…
**Vineka: **it's all in, so now I just start typing and it all populates, as opposed to me putting the chart and the location and, wasting my life away, is what it feels like. Every little click feels like, oh my gosh, why am I doing.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Love it.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Love it.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Charo, how has your week been?
**Charu Sawhney: **It's been good. I was,
**Charu Sawhney: **I'm just… I was just fin- finally finishing up all the stuff.
**Charu Sawhney: **for the… For the water damage, and that…
**Charu Sawhney: **So, our floors got replaced, and the paint got,
**Charu Sawhney: **Like, all the paint, what is it, touch-ups happened, and now I just need to…
**Charu Sawhney: **move the exam tables back into, like, the original rooms that I want to use. Unfortunately, the exam tables are extremely heavy, and that's, like.
**Charu Sawhney: **It takes, like, 10-15 minutes, but I cannot do it, so I'm hoping I can… I tried to hire movers, but they needed a 2-hour minimum, and I was like, it's really only, like, a 20-minute job.
**Charu Sawhney: **So, I'm gonna see, I think my contractor was gonna help me tomorrow, so… And then I can finally, like, go back to…
**Charu Sawhney: **using, like, my bigger rooms.
**Charu Sawhney: **I'm still trying to complete all of my electronic fund transfers, and… Trying to…
**Charu Sawhney: **So I saw my numbers, and… So apparently, like.
**Charu Sawhney: **I can see, like, everything that I've billed, and I can see what has come in.
**Charu Sawhney: **But out of what has come in, I think about…
**Charu Sawhney: **It's, like, 30% that gets taken out.
**Charu Sawhney: **for the… Insurance agreed rate, if that makes sense? Like…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Your contract rates?
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah, my contracted rates. So… Apparently, I've billed, like.
**Charu Sawhney: **like, $70,000, which I'm like, wow, that sounds pretty damn good. But…
**Charu Sawhney: **you know, but I'm like, oh, but how much… like, once all my electronic fund transfers and all of that stuff gets aligned, like, how much am I really gonna get, you know? I think I'm only gonna get, like, maybe 30 or 40?
**Charu Sawhney: **maybe tops? Like, I don't think I get a lot, and so we were trying to estimate that, but you really don't know until you…
**Charu Sawhney: **Until you just, like, see it all come in.
**Charu Sawhney: **So I'm still working on…
**Charu Sawhney: **I'm still working on just the basics, I'm still working on just…
**Charu Sawhney: **Like, tying up all of those, like, pieces and,
**Charu Sawhney: **And I haven't had a chance to… I mean, I see all the new… all the codes that I have to add, but I haven't had a chance to actually add the codes to my fee schedule, and…
**Charu Sawhney: **And, like, start, you know?
**Charu Sawhney: **Start billing for them.
**Charu Sawhney: **But I have, like, a revenue coaching call tomorrow with Athena.
**Charu Sawhney: **So… I'm hoping that I can finally, like, set my day-to-day schedule.
**Charu Sawhney: **And my front desk person has been awesome. She's been… she got ahold of WellMed, which is amazing, to get…
**Charu Sawhney: **And finally, to get the process going of just moving my name, because they don't… they've already vetted me and approved me, so they actually don't need to do that process at all. All I… all they need to do is just move me from one location to another, so that's going to be huge.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Do they have to switch you to a different EIN as well?
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah. Yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Is, is WellMed just a clearinghouse, or is that.
**Charu Sawhney: **Oh, sorry, WellMed is, like, one of the value-based systems here in Texas. It's one of the bigger Medicare… I guess they're… it's the Medicare Advantage. I'm pretty sure they would fall under that category. But they're a big player. Like, almost everyone who has Medicare Advantage is through WellMed, but…
**Charu Sawhney: **WellMed has their own clinics, however, they can't absorb all of the patients, so they have… they have vetted and trained, like, other, you know, people in other clinics to… to, be their… to be their providers, you know, to be in that network. So it's not… it's interesting, because…
**Charu Sawhney: **I don't think I'm… I'm not part of the ACO. Like, I'm not part of their ACO, I'm just…
**Charu Sawhney: **contracted to see their patients, but I have to do it in that value-based model.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Where do they then provide you diagnoses that they're looking for you to reconcile, and gaps that they're asking you to close, and those sorts of things?
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah, yeah, they do.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Do they provide any additional compensation for that, other than just the privilege to see their patients?
**Charu Sawhney: **No, I think they do, and I've just never seen that side, and I'm hoping that…
**Charu Sawhney: **as I get the credentialing with Greenbelt Health, like, I'll be able to see that
**Charu Sawhney: **like, once I go through the contracting and they send me, you know, they send me their…
**Charu Sawhney: **their, I guess their requirements, I'll be able to see it.
**Charu Sawhney: **Like, I've always done my part, but I don't know, like, I never knew how much the companies got, you know, from me doing that.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I mean, depending on whether or not you share an upside or downside, like in a true ACO, but the advantage plans are not really… their value-based care is not your true ACO, that's usually Original Medicare.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And so most of those, they're just… they're trying to get, you know, increase that RAF number, that risk number for Medicare patients, but they're usually doing it in exchange for a clinician.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **finding those diagnoses that will increase that RAF score, right? So that they get more money allocated to them. And they do it by either closing gaps, or by, again, capturing diagnoses.
**Charu Sawhney: **That's what they're doing.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **What I have seen in individual companies is that there will be a compensation anywhere to $50 to $100 to complete that on an annual basis. That would be a very reasonable benchmark for you to look for in this… in this
**Jennie Eckstrom: **situation where you are not one of their clinics, you're not participating in any of that upside, you're just.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yes.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Taking on risk for them.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **But you should still be compensated.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yes. For that time.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yes, and a lot of that with Athena, like, happens within the system. The reconciliation happens, at least for WellMed, they have moved from the paper-based system to just doing it within the diagnoses in Athena. Like, it just pulls in…
**Charu Sawhney: **It basically pulls…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **suggest diagnoses? Do they say, like, hey, this person has a diagnosis of heart failure from this ER, from this visit, is this actual?
**Charu Sawhney: **We're in.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Is that just fluff?
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah. Yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **You're still doing that reconcile… reconcile for them.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So, yeah.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah, yeah, I guess, I guess that's what I need to figure out, like, if you're not, like.
**Charu Sawhney: **filling out a form, and signing it, and faxing it, like, we're still doing it, right? So…
**Charu Sawhney: **Before, in my other clinics, I don't think well-med patients were, like, recruited, but…
**Charu Sawhney: **And I know I have, like… I mean, I know I have a handful, but I actually think that it would be a good place to recruit newer… new… new Medicare patients.
**Charu Sawhney: **Because that… I think that system already exists, like, I already know how to do it with them, and I'm not really sure. I'd have to research on who else does it in…
**Charu Sawhney: **who else does that model in this area? Because I haven't seen anyone else.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Well, so there's a company, and I don't know if they're in, I know they're in Texas, I'm not sure what their solvency is. We've been working with them for 3 years, but there's a company called Main Street Rural out of Tennessee.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And they're also… they started out in the Advantage market, and then they've expanded into the Medicare ACO, and…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **we… Texas used to be included in our region, so our medical… our physician was based out of Texas, and then he would come up, I can't remember his name right now off the top of my head.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **But depending upon your patient volume, specifically, they've had contracts with Blue Cross, and then with Humana in our market, they just gave up their United Healthcare Advantage contract, but again, I think that's state by state.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **But that's another way to, again, do that same sort of thing that WellMed is asking you to do. Reconcile diagnoses, you know, and exchange.
**Charu Sawhney: **No.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **providing the care for the patient, right? You're already doing those things.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yep, yep.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah, so I'll… that's what I… that's… it's… it's interesting, because I feel like if some… somebody else existed, I would have already known about it, just because I've been practicing in this area and arena. So maybe there… but maybe there is, like, Main Street, and I just, you know, I haven't been exposed.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Main Street, and then we also talked about Vatica, that V-A-T-I.
**Charu Sawhney: **I see.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah. And that was specifically for those Humana Advantage.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yep.
**Charu Sawhney: **I just haven't had time to look at.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, no, again, I mean, those are just things to, like, keep on your radar for patients you're already caring for, and .
**Charu Sawhney: **Because I, I also…
**Charu Sawhney: **I'm also, like, I finally… I'm finally doing, like, my… my, like, grand opening ceremony, so I've had to shift just a tiny bit of time to just, you know, promoting that.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, no, that's great. I mean, this is a… it's… it's…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **These are things that you just continue to do, right? It's just an evolving… process, so…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Oh, Natasha said, did you put sliders under your exam tables?
**Charu Sawhney: **I am going to buy sliders today.
**Charu Sawhney: **From Home Depot, I did it with towels when we had to move them because of the water, and I was shocked at how not movable they were.
**Charu Sawhney: **Because, I mean, and I get that, I get that, you know, towels aren't sliders, but that's what I'm hoping. I'm hoping, like, me and the contractor with the sliders can do it on our own tomorrow. Yeah. When he comes.
**Charu Sawhney: **And my nurse will be here, maybe I'll ask her, maybe I'll ask her if her husband can come, you know, like…
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah. I mean, it's only, like, two tables, it's only moving… one of them is just across the hallway, and another one is, like, down the hallway, so it's… it's not… I just remember…
**Charu Sawhney: **like, the dry force people, the water people, the water mitigation people did it, and I was really shocked at how heavy it was. I was like, holy mother of God, these are…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **They probably had, like, a furniture dolly or something like that.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **No!
**Charu Sawhney: **No, we just did it. Like, I was helping, but there was… there was this, like, psychotically strong dude, and I was like, the other guy couldn't do it, I couldn't do it, and he was just, like, here, and he, like, picked up an end, and I was like, how did you do that? And me and the other guy picked up, like, kind of shifted the other end.
**Charu Sawhney: **So yeah, literally, but yes, I'm gonna try to get those, like, big, chunky sliders, and hopefully those will be a little bit easier.
**Vineka: **Do you have, like, a neighbor or an enthusiastic teenager that's strong, that…
**Charu Sawhney: **Ugh, I know. I mean, I have… that's the problem, right? Like, I actually have a lot of friends that live in the area that my clinic is in.
**Charu Sawhney: **But, you know, everybody has, like, a back problem or some shit that I'm like, I can't… I feel like I can't. Yeah, I was actually thinking about that. I was actually thinking about asking them, hey, do you guys have a neighborhood group that I could just be, like, any teenager that can come?
**Charu Sawhney: **They can come help.
**Charu Sawhney: **It's just hard, it's like, if you don't know, like, it's hard to tap into it. I… I have… I know of one in my neighborhood, but then I don't know… I'm not tapped into it in this neighborhood.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I get that. I get that.
**Vineka: **It's spring break for us here, so I'm sure teenagers want to make a few bucks.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **No.
**Charu Sawhney: **I know, I know, but maybe I'll pull, I'm, like, trying to think who…
**Charu Sawhney: **who is… who is, like, in this complex, but yeah, I just would feel so bad if somebody hurt themselves, so I'm, like, so conscious to, like, ask.
**Charu Sawhney: **But, yeah.
**Charu Sawhney: **it's, like, such a silly little thing, but I'm,
**Charu Sawhney: **I'm getting to a point where, I am…
**Charu Sawhney: **like, I'm kind of like, okay, like, all of this, like… I don't know if you add it all up, maybe it's, like, 20 or 30 hours of time that I've had to…
**Charu Sawhney: **Put away, you know, just organizing.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **For your… so one of the things that you might do when you submit your claim for your flood, from personal experience.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **If you have time, or when you have to, like, move that…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Did you have a water mitigation company? They came in and they did everything, and they didn't put things back for you?
**Charu Sawhney: **No, because they didn't… remember my contractor came in and did my floors.
**Charu Sawhney: **like, the mitigation company usually comes in and does the tear… like, pulls everything up, does the drying, but then they also come back and do the construction. I had my contractor do the construction, so once everything was dry, the mitigation company walked away.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Right, but the claim that goes to the insurance company next door for the company that had.
**Charu Sawhney: **Oh, yeah, you're so right. I should have fired the mover.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **so if you needed to have people, like, all of your bills… I mean, you had to have a quote and all the things, right? But… but the bills for putting your stuff back together, back to usable rooms?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Should go on that, as should, you know, time that you had Bend coordinating that.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **time, that should be stuff that you submit. Now, you may not get paid for all of that.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **But you should definitely itemize, you know, so the time that you were there with the water mitigation company hourly, and the time that you spent
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Managing and overseeing all of that should go on that, and likewise, if you end up needing to do that 2-hour minimum, that goes on the bill to put your rooms back together after the flood.
**Charu Sawhney: **Actually, you know what, you're so right. I should have just done it.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah, I'm probably… I should have just done it, because I totally forgot about that. But yeah, I am gonna calculate… it's, like, another thing that I have to do. I have to sit down and, like, put all of the pictures, and the bills, and the invoices together, and I just… I'm, like, annoyed. I'm just like, no, I don't want to do that. I'd rather finish my notes, you know? Like, fuck, I hate this.
**Charu Sawhney: **This is bullshit. So, like, I'm… I'm actually gonna just wait until all my invoices are in, and then send it, and so it's just…
**Charu Sawhney: **probably by the end of this week, I'll have…
**Charu Sawhney: **But you were so right, I should just… I should just have the movers come. Call it a day.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And you probably still just could have… you know, rather than running around and, you know, making it.
**Charu Sawhney: **Interesting.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Hot luck, like…
**Charu Sawhney: **Exactly!
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Just hire him.
**Charu Sawhney: **Oh my god, I don't know why I didn't think of that. Ugh.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Because we think about just getting stuff done. We just think it's… it's in our training, like, we just do it, we figure it out, it doesn't matter if this is something that I should do, like, I'm gonna just figure out a way to do it. That is… that is…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Sort of the quintessential, especially female physician.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Right? We just get shit done. So… but this one, again, especially when you start thinking about, like, back injuries and things like that, like…
**Charu Sawhney: **It's not worth it, yeah.
**Charu Sawhney: **Fuck.
**Charu Sawhney: **It's not worth it. Yes, excellent point. So I might just text him right now and be like, what time do you got available tomorrow? Come on in!
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And then you just submitted as a bill. It was a 2-hour minimum.
**Charu Sawhney: **It's actually pretty cheap. It's only a hundred… it's only $200. It's not like it's stupidly expensive. I was just like, I don't want to spend $200 to move two tables.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **You're not going to spend $200, you're going to put it on that invoice when you submit the bill to get reimbursed from the other company. So…
**Charu Sawhney: **Yes.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So…
**Charu Sawhney: **Yes, yes, yes.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **In the future, you could certainly use sliders, but this one…
**Charu Sawhney: **We need them anyways. We need them anyways. And there was… there's a little bit of anxiety behind that, you know, like…
**Charu Sawhney: **even though I haven't come out of any money, like, I'm literally taking their invoices and just sanding it back… handing it to them, like, I'm… I'm… I'm just like… there's a small part of me that's like, ugh, if they… if they don't pay at all, then…
**Charu Sawhney: **I have to get my insurance involved, and then they have, you know, and then it's just even more time and resources, and I'm really hoping I don't have to do that.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **The one good thing you have going for you is you have a new space you just walked into, right?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Or new-to-you space.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So long as you didn't, like, have to pull up cabinets and that, that they say these are 20 years old, and they're only worth a portion of their value, and blah blah blah.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah, no, it was, like, everything was, like, 4 weeks old. Like, it was so new.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Hard to argue with that.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah, yeah, and there were so many people here, right? Like… like, within, like, 2 hours of me finding the flood, like, everyone was here, so it's kind of…
**Charu Sawhney: **extremely obvious. So, yeah, that's why I'm hoping that it's going to be very clear.
**Charu Sawhney: **Just one more thing, one more email that I have to… Put it all together.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah.
**Charu Sawhney: **So…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **You said you would take…
**Vineka: **Text him! Text him now!
**Charu Sawhney: **Who? The mover? Yeah, I guess I could do that.
**Charu Sawhney: **And I can just be like, hey, do you have availability tomorrow for 2 hours?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Just do it and be done with it, right?
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah, I could.
**Charu Sawhney: **It's at 7.30, I mean, they're… well, it's… I think it's one of those people… it's like one of those smaller companies, like.
**Charu Sawhney: **That they're still working, even though…
**Vineka: **We're an EP.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **If you shoot them an email, they'll get it when they decide to check their email.
**Vineka: **Yep.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **No.
**Vineka: **And the worst will be, like, they don't respond, but they'll see you…
**Charu Sawhney: **In fact.
**Vineka: **Next person.
**Charu Sawhney: **You are very right. I can totally do that. Now, of course, I've texted a million people about my open house, so I need to go all the way… I need to go find them. But yeah, thanks.
**Charu Sawhney: **God, that is so silly, I could have gotten it done this morning, I don't know what I was thinking.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Well…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, and again, I think it just brings back that idea, and especially as small business owners, yes, I can do this.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **should I be the one to do this?
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah, exactly.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yes. Yeah, Natasha's saying that she had filled the hassle of the water leak.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Hoi vay. Yes, Natasha, I don't know, last week… well, I don't know when we were talking about it, maybe Chara and I were talking about the very beginning, but…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Two years ago, we had a pipe burst in the middle of the night, and we didn't find out until the water set off the burglar alarm, because it was flowing out the front door of the clinic, and by that time, it had filled up a third of the
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Flooded a third of the main floor and went into the elevator shaft and into the server room downstairs, so…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **It was, yeah, floods are zero fun.
**Charu Sawhney: **I know.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **But this one should be a pretty clear, like, anything that you had to do that was not a course of your normal day-to-day.
**Charu Sawhney: **And, you know, the pain… the pain management guy, he's even more intense. He's like, you kept me from doing procedures for 3 days, and he's like… he's, like, going crazy. This is how much I charge for this, and I was like, okay, I'm just gonna bill my time hourly.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah.
**Charu Sawhney: **He's… yeah, because he's, like, billing his time hourly, plus billing…
**Charu Sawhney: **the patience he would have seen and, you know, gotten compensation for. I… mine is… I still sought patience. Mine is more just the hour… the hourly.
**Charu Sawhney: **And I still… I still need to do all the big things. I still need to, like, sit down and reconcile my numbers and figure out, you know…
**Charu Sawhney: **like, how aggressive I need to be, because right now, I'm… it's like… it's like about 8, you know, 8 to 10 patients a day, and I'm like, technically, I'm in month 3, and I can't remember on my Performa how long I… like, how long I put down.
**Charu Sawhney: **8 patients a day for… I think I'm on track, it's just, you know, it's like that unknown, like, until you do it, you just kind of don't know where you are.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And that's part of the learning that you'll have.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **in… I mean, you're month 3 right now, right? February, March, April?
**Charu Sawhney: **I'm… I'm right at… I think this is my ninth week, yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Great. Hi, Florence!
**Florence Shum: **Hi, I'm so sorry to join late.
**Florence Shum: **So…
**Vineka: **Good to see you!
**Florence Shum: **Hi.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah. Hopefully every week I'll have more updates and more epiphanies of, guess what?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Are you carving out, or what of your time in a week are you carving out for your CEO role?
**Charu Sawhney: **I, you know, I've been talking to my therapist about this, like, I just… I… I feel like…
**Charu Sawhney: **I feel like I do things as they come up, and like, when they're urgent.
**Charu Sawhney: **Or they're important, because my front desk staff is here, and it has to do with billing.
**Charu Sawhney: **I prioritize it throughout the day, you know, like 5-10 minutes here and there.
**Charu Sawhney: **But I don't really have, like… because I've had to do things as they come up, and then, you know.
**Charu Sawhney: **depending on how I feel, I basically, you know.
**Charu Sawhney: **because my problem is, is that if I don't want to do something.
**Charu Sawhney: **I will sit at work for 6 hours, and if I force myself to do the thing that I don't want to do, I will sit up for work for 6 hours, and I won't do anything.
**Charu Sawhney: **I'll just shit around. And so now, you know, so my… my strategy now is I have a whole bunch of stuff to do in different buckets, and if I don't feel like doing one, I shift to another. So I'm not, like, just wasting time. And so sometimes this whole, like.
**Charu Sawhney: **this whole, like, scheduling of, like, Wednesday mornings, I will commit to doing this.
**Charu Sawhney: **it doesn't really, doesn't really work well for me, like, I tend to… you know, I, I…
**Charu Sawhney: **I tend to fall into, like, my little, doom scroll… not doom scrolling, but, like, my doom, like, whatever activity, like, traps.
**Charu Sawhney: **And so I'm…
**Charu Sawhney: **But then, if I don't have some kind of priority, I fall into the, I'm working, working, working, and I might be working, but I'm not doing the top priority items.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Hmm.
**Charu Sawhney: **So I think, what I want to try to do is…
**Charu Sawhney: **you know, no matter what, I'm doing work, but every time, any bucket that I do, I need to focus on the… the hardest, toughest priority item.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **First.
**Charu Sawhney: **And I think as long as I do that, I should be able to get through chunks of things.
**Charu Sawhney: **every week.
**Charu Sawhney: **But yeah, I don't… I don't have that skill set yet of, like, how to figure out, like, what needs to get done this week, and what needs to get done this month, and am I, you know, keeping… am I getting those items crossed off?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Do you… are you prioritizing your revenue-generating items so that you know that those are all getting completed?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **In a timely fashion.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yep, I'm trying to prioritize finishing my notes and completing all these, like, EFTs so I can get paid, so I can get whatever that…
**Charu Sawhney: **whatever amount is coming in out of that $60,000. I'm like… I'm like, I'm like…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **You'll start to get a sense, as you… as you have more of those bills come in, of what, you know, what each insurance will pay.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And what percentage.
**Charu Sawhney: **But I don't, I don't know, like.
**Charu Sawhney: **As you… as you go through, like, as you guys have gone through your… your businesses and your practices.
**Charu Sawhney: **When do you step out of this, I'm just doing what I have to do, like, mode and actually start
**Charu Sawhney: **planning and shifting towards, like, more executive, like, I want to move in this direction, so I'm going to focus my time here, versus just focusing on your time on, like, putting out fires, or just doing the thing, you know, just doing the basics of, oh my god, I need to finish my notes, and I need to get money, and I need to finish my notes, and I need to get money.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So, one of those things is even with the fires that you have to put out the fires, most of the time those aren't, like, true, like, burning the place down fires, so even if you designate that and batch it, so you're not continually having that, like, intention poll.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **You know, that is… that is perhaps a… a tool or a skill set to really try to refine
**Jennie Eckstrom: **now.
**Charu Sawhney: **How do you do it? I'm just curious, like, how do you plan out your week, like, between, like, your clinic and your IT stuff and this coaching, you know, this, this, like, program that you're doing?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So, my clinic days, I have found, are really just my clinic days. My goal is that I see my patients, I get my notes done, I get that billing done, and I've had to come to the point where
**Jennie Eckstrom: **my bubbles are never gonna be empty. They've been empty, like, 5 times in 20 years, but they're never gonna be empty. That, like, need to have everything completely clear, I have had to let go. But I've realized that the revenue generation piece has to get done. If that doesn't get done, I don't get paid.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And then I really try to have my Tuesdays and my Saturdays really just not have anything work-related for my clinic bleed over into it.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **But it is a skill set that… that I'm continuing to have to hone. But… but really trying to block out some of that… that white space.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **so that I can get into more of a flow state, versus… and I set agendas, I have created a personal
**Jennie Eckstrom: **chat that's sort of me, that I actually have one that I use for, like, goal setting and agenda. Like, these are the things that I need to get done, I sort of brain dump into it, and help me prioritize this.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Because otherwise, I won't make lists until Jesus returns. Just like lists, and I will get lost in that, you know, that feeling of, like, oh, I'll just continue to make a list. It's hard to prioritize. And then when I feel resistance to something, much like you do, like, for whatever reason.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **like, sometimes making phone calls is difficult for me, then when I feel that resistance, I move to something else that I know that I can accomplish, and then sort of go back into that.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So those are some of the tools that I use. I'd be interested in hearing from the rest of the group.
**Charu Sawhney: **One place that I feel like I really… more, like, the… just the business tasks.
**Charu Sawhney: **is, like, getting, getting some… getting the clod into my email to start creating, like.
**Charu Sawhney: **lists of things, like, don't forget to pay this bill, don't forget… you know, like, them… the AI just going through my email and making sure I'm not missing anything.
**Charu Sawhney: **Because a lot of times I'll be, like, falling asleep, and I'll be like, oh, shit, I forgot to pay that bill, you know, or I forgot to… and it would be nice to just have that piece, like, have, like, a little to-do list, like, these are the things due today. This is what's, you know?
**Charu Sawhney: **Because right now, I'm still automating all my payments, and I haven't really quite done that yet.
**Charu Sawhney: **But I will have, like, random things…
**Charu Sawhney: **like, random, like, oh, I have to email somebody to get in our, like, community paper, you know?
**Charu Sawhney: **it's just, like, all this, like, random little stuff, but I… and I have a list, but again, it's, you know, like, it would help if… if I started using some AI tools for them to be, like, you know.
**Charu Sawhney: **for, like, what you… is that what you're doing? Like, where it's splitting up, like, what you should do and how you should, like, divvy it up per week or per month on completing these tasks?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I do it more on a daily basis, on the… on the time that I have for it. You know, other, you know, other tools that I use are, like, my task list in,
**Jennie Eckstrom: **in my Google Calendar of, like.
**Charu Sawhney: **Excuse me.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **the tasks, and they will, they will follow forward, or calendar things that need to get done.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So…
**Charu Sawhney: **Well, do you, are you using AI at all to, like, create those, like, redundant tasks, or going through
**Charu Sawhney: **I don't know, like, a lot of my stuff comes through my email, you know?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah. And I just, I just did Claude Co-work and one other this weekend, but I got so deep into a project that I didn't reboot the computer, so I gotta… That's on my task for my Tuesday day tomorrow, where I don't have, clinical tasks.
**Charu Sawhney: **I feel like that might be… like, that is the one place, but, you know, there's a lot of resistance there, because it's like this big unknown, you know? Like, it takes you forever. It takes me forever to get into something that I don't know how to do, but I think that's gonna be the most…
**Charu Sawhney: **time, value.
**Charu Sawhney: **benefit. Like, if I could just… is it co-work? It's… so it's Claude Co-work, the one that figured… like, that you can attach onto your email to, like, help you do, like, to, you know, to-do lists, or…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **you have to create a virtual… and again, I am…
**Charu Sawhney: **New to this.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I am, dancing with Claude. Claude has impressed me quite a bit, some of the other things that I've created, but I have not, I am not yet the expert. I know, Vinika, did you end up doing that, that AI conference?
**Vineka: **I didn't. No, I just… it was a prelude. It's very intense, so…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Huh.
**Vineka: **I didn't want to commit that much time, but Natasha is a Claude.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I know, Natasha.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yes, I know. Actually.
**Vineka: **And you did the introductions for me.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah, and actually, that was one of… I was gonna email you, Jenny, and Natasha, and so when I saw Natasha on this, I was like, yay, she's in my cohort, I can get her, I can ask her.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah.
**Charu Sawhney: **Are you talking about that, that, the…
**Charu Sawhney: **The one this group has, the PassiveMD group has, the AI bootcamp thing?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I don't know what… what… no, Vinika had just been…
**Vineka: **Montwally one.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **about… Yeah, I don't know Mindvalley, so, let's see where…
**Charu Sawhney: **It seems like this… the… the… Whatever, this passage.
**Florence Shum: **I just…
**Charu Sawhney: **It's…
**Florence Shum: **I just saw, I think on Facebook ad, like, from, Tony Robbins, is doing one.
**Florence Shum: **AI summary.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, there was another one. Yeah, it just feels like they're…
**Florence Shum: **It's coming up, like, I think this month.
**Florence Shum: **It came up on my feed.
**Charu Sawhney: **I also think… I think, is that what you did? You just figured it out? And Jenny? Like, I also think this is something I could potentially figure out.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, I've just been… so I have been moving my projects, a lot of what I had created, I've been taking my documents and then building them out, so…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Right.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **like…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **the handle that I did for revenue cycle management. That was something that I had created in chat, but instead of handing off to my VA to have her go into
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Canva and try to come up with a document and go back and forth and back and forth, I dumped that text into Claude and said, hey, this is what I want to create. And actually, I had two different handouts that I wanted to merge together, and
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And then I added it in my brand kit, and I said, let's create this, let's brand it, and then I gave it some feedback, like, no, I want these bubbles, and I want this here, and…
**Charu Sawhney: **Oh, nice.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **But what would have taken my VA,
**Jennie Eckstrom: **countless of ours, and back and forth, because I would have given feedback, was about maybe a… maybe a 25-minute interaction with Claude.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah, and I keep… and I feel like I spend a lot of time in the evenings, like, before I go to bed, watching, like.
**Charu Sawhney: **Instagram videos on AI, and people keep saying, yeah, I just gave it a project over lunch, and then I came back, and it was done. And I'm like, what do you mean you gave it a project? And I was just like… Natasha's right, she's like, anything you don't know how to do in Claude, just ask Claude, so that's what I'm gonna do.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So, what I did this weekend, and this was part of, I was doing an analysis of… I'm basically creating a bit of a database and some tools to, again, to do a little bit of a deeper dive with you guys.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **But I wanted to create it in a more of an interactive tool that right now is starting in an Excel space. So, I started out with… with my practice and my numbers and some overall,
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I think I put in, like, 4 years of numbers, and analysis, and creating a tool around, like, APCM, creating a tool around
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Like, we talked about Prolia, so like a service line versus a procedure, so really trying to create that, and I spent most of Saturday interacting with that. Ran out of time a couple of times, so I had to buy a little bit of extra data, so I didn't have to wait for the next 4-hour block, because I'm at the $20 a month.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Piece, but it came up with a really beautiful
**Jennie Eckstrom: **database tool to use that, again, has things like a med spa, an ambulatory surgery center, has a individual physician service line, has, you know, all these different pieces, and took all of that data in a way that
**Jennie Eckstrom: **God knows how long that would take me to even, like, conjure up that type of piece, where before, in chat, I was creating, you know.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I was creating…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **basically formulas, but I was the person that was having to go. Like, even the… the Excel spreadsheet that we used for Florence a couple of weeks ago, as we were talking about
**Jennie Eckstrom: **looking at a pro forma for a new provider, like, that was a labor-intensive, like, how do I adjust these cells? And Claude basically, like, spit it out.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, no, Natasha, wait till you see it. I actually have a special one. Actually, as I'm creating it, I'm like, this one's for Vinika, this one's for Florence, Char's gonna love this. Like, the tool I created for APCM, and how you, like, plug in…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **patience you have, and what that will generate. So, that was Claude and I bonding for about, like, maybe 6 or 7 hours on Saturday, and me.
**Charu Sawhney: **Generally, that's…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **a whole lot.
**Charu Sawhney: **I gave your Saturday. Like, that's awesome.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **It was awesome! I was so excited, and it's like, we need more time. I was like, I'll give you more time.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah.
**Charu Sawhney: **So…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **All I would say is, don't be scared of it.
**Charu Sawhney: **Oh, yeah, I'm not scared. I think it's just, like, that… that, that initiation task thing, right? Like, just getting into it. But…
**Charu Sawhney: **the information and the opinion pieces that I'm seeing around AI, to me, now make more sense. Because, you know, this whole, like, oh, it's gonna take away everyone's jobs, I'm like, I just don't get that. Like, I really, really, truly don't get it.
**Charu Sawhney: **And, I heard this economist talk yesterday, and he was just like, it actually… you actually will end up creating more jobs, because
**Charu Sawhney: **companies who downsize will actually stagnate, but companies who keep the same number of employees and use those employees and train them in AI, their growth will be exponential. And so, I was like, yes! I was like, I just didn't know how to put it in words, but I was like, this is what makes sense to me. It doesn't make sense, you know, it's like saying that you needed, like, you know, less bookkeepers because you… Excel came out. No!
**Charu Sawhney: **the bookkeepers are just more efficient, because Excel came out, you know?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **directly.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So that's… yeah, so take the tasks that you're doing, and… and you may even, like, do this, actually, Charo, take your Performa, drop it in, say to this…
**Charu Sawhney: **Oh my god!
**Jennie Eckstrom: **that I'm seeing.
**Charu Sawhney: **encouraging.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Where am I at? Where should I be?
**Charu Sawhney: **Holy shit, yes, you're a genius. Okay, thank you.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **That's what you need to do with it next.
**Charu Sawhney: **Because I've been going, oh my god, that's gonna take me so long.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Nope, it's not. So you're gonna actually take away your need. You're going to say, this is the pro forma that I set out. You're going to create a project around this. You're gonna drop in your pro forma. You're going to take in, this is the number of patients that I saw. I'm not really sure what I'm gonna get back, but this is what I've billed, and I'm seeing these patients. Let's take a MGMA average of, like.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **maybe I should be collecting 50-60% of my billed charges. That's gonna be high for Medicare, but maybe approximate, you know, where am I at? Where should I expect to be at month 3? Looking at this, where are the places that I need to really hone in on? That's how I…
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah, and it's easy, it'll be easy to type in, like, my…
**Charu Sawhney: **the numbers that don't change, right? Like, like rent and, you know.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Just take your spreadsheet. Take it either if you want to do a screen grab of it,
**Jennie Eckstrom: **you know, created as a PDF, you're just gonna add it in as a file to your project?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And you're gonna ask it to give you that feedback.
**Charu Sawhney: **Oh, yes, oh my god, okay.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah.
**Charu Sawhney: **That's what I needed, because that, to me, sounds reasonable. The other thing that I've been thinking in my head, I'm like, oh my god, this is gonna take me so long.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, no, it… you should… we should be, and I'm sure Natasha… because Natasha's gone, like, way deep, and so many things, but…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **anything that you're doing that you are saying, oh gosh, do I have 2 or 3 hours of brain time to do it? We should ask the question, how can… how can AI help me
**Jennie Eckstrom: **distill this.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah, okay.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **even asking the questions of, like, what am I missing? What questions should I be asking? And put it in the… as a CFO who has a new startup practice with these numbers.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **What should we expect at this stage compared to where we are at?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So… So, Florence, how are you doing? How has this week gone for you?
**Florence Shum: **Okay, this week was very busy, because I had to travel to Boston with my, oldest one for volleyball, so… I was there since Thursday, and then we came back late last night, so I didn't get the chance to do that much for my own
**Florence Shum: **For the revenue cycle.
**Florence Shum: **I couldn't even, like, catch up with my own, like, charting.
**Florence Shum: **Because of that, which is… Like, I hear you, Charlie, like,
**Florence Shum: **it's hard to probably, like, usually I try to have my Mondays, like, non-clinical admin day, where I can get some of these things done. But I find myself, a lot of time, that's my catch-up day, on, like, my charts, reading my EEGs.
**Florence Shum: **you know, like, finishing my EMG reports, like, things like that. And then I would schedule sometimes, like, different types of meetings, like.
**Florence Shum: **Meeting with,
**Florence Shum: **Yeah, just, like, other, like, admin stuff, like, with, like, that's my meeting day, also, usually that takes… like…
**Florence Shum: **Like, a morning, a good morning to do those tasks.
**Florence Shum: **And then…
**Florence Shum: **whatever time I have, it's like, ends up working something, troubleshooting something with the second location, like today. We had to go to the office because the plumber's like, oh, you know, inspection is tomorrow, so we have to fix this thing today, and then we're like, and you did not tell us, like, beforehand?
**Florence Shum: **Like, just… That was really frustrating, the plumber that we use. That's, like, another story, but…
**Florence Shum: **So, just a lot of things that comes up, and I feel like that my one day of…
**Florence Shum: **At midday is not enough.
**Florence Shum: **So, yes, like, finish the charting, it's really a priority. I think that would free up more time if I can actually
**Florence Shum: **Close up all my notes, like, complete.
**Florence Shum: **I've sat into, like, different coaching on that as well, previously, but none of it has really stick.
**Florence Shum: **for me, unfortunately. Like, I just… and I have AI… I use… I try to use AI Scribe, I try to…
**Florence Shum: **Have a live person scribe?
**Florence Shum: **And it's still… I'm still not able to close all my notes.
**Florence Shum: **Which is really bad.
**Florence Shum: **So many aspects that I need help with, I feel like, right now.
**Charu Sawhney: **Are you really detail-oriented? Like, is… do you get… do you get… are you your own worst enemy in this? Like, that's kind of where I am.
**Florence Shum: **Probably, you know why? Because, like, for us, because we also order a lot of tests, like imaging studies, like, certain procedures, and we have to justify, and I…
**Florence Shum: **put in a lot of macros already, like, on my AMP. So my note tends to be long just because of the stupid macro I need to put in, so then if I need to do a peer-to-peer or whatever, like, the information is there.
**Florence Shum: **You know, and…
**Florence Shum: **You know, that's the thing, like, you know, a patient comes in, like, they get an MRI, they get an EEG, and, like, another test, so easy, like, two tests minimum. Might not be in my office, but we still have to get the authorization for the patient.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah.
**Florence Shum: **So then it ends up being, like, we have to put in the details, because
**Florence Shum: **I'm not always the one doing the peer-to-peer, I have my PAs do the peer-to-peer, so they rely on my history.
**Florence Shum: **To try to get the study approved.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So, when you're doing your AI scribe, are you doing an ambient scribe with a patient in the room?
**Florence Shum: **Yes.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Okay, and are you reviewing their imaging with them at that time?
**Florence Shum: **Okay.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **you're trying to drop in, like, your AIM… your criteria that you know you're gonna need for the AIM prior authorization.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **on their MR, are you including that sort of in your conversation, or are you having to then do… what portion of your note is done with the patient, or your assessment and plan on.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Then, with the patient in the room versus outside of the room.
**Florence Shum: **So, mold… so my note, the HPI, I can pretty much get done.
**Florence Shum: **And, especially if I used AI, like, I…
**Florence Shum: **I'm trying to, like, turn on the commure.
**Florence Shum: **I'm seeing patients, even if I have a scribe, even if I'm typing, like, I just want to have it on, right? So you kind of train it.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Right?
**Florence Shum: **Then, and then… But it's, the language for, like, the language limitation when I'm seeing non-English speaking patients.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Is it not picking that up? Because I actually did an encounter with Camir in a Spanish-speaking family, and we.
**Florence Shum: **Standard.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **It's like a bilingual, and it was amazing.
**Florence Shum: **I think Spanish, they work really well. Okay. Chinese and the Chinese is…
**Florence Shum: **not reliable. Okay. I thought it's because people's different accent, different dialects, different…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **She's poor.
**Florence Shum: **So, I'm trying to use it more to see if I can train it better.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Bye.
**Florence Shum: **But when it doesn't pick it up, it couldn't even generate the note. It's blank.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Gotcha. Okay.
**Florence Shum: **It's just the… I mean, the…
**Florence Shum: **transcript, it's… I mean, the conversation is still recorded, which is better, because the one that integrated with my EMR… so I even tried the EMR, the MBN note that integrates directly to the EMR, thinking, oh, maybe that would be even faster.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Okay.
**Florence Shum: **But it was worse. Okay. If it couldn't pick it up, there was no recording of the conversation, and there was nothing. So… so the HPI part I can get, but that…
**Florence Shum: **I think is,
**Florence Shum: **The exam, sometimes I would forget to at least put in the abnormal part of the exam.
**Florence Shum: **So, I need to make sure that I do that.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Have you templated that in your… have you.
**Florence Shum: **I doubt…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **of your, of your Crom year, at least templated your normal exam?
**Florence Shum: **Yes, yes, yes, that I have. The AMP part, because of,
**Florence Shum: **the different diagnosis codes I have to put in, and then I tend to put in the diagnosis code so I can place the orders.
**Florence Shum: **medication…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **duplicates it, yeah.
**Florence Shum: **whatever it is, and then the AMP, then I end up, like, finishing after, like, the patient, like, leaves the room, or something.
**Florence Shum: **You know?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So, could you… just a thought, because these… because, again, I… God, I feel you in so many ways.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Can you, before you leave the room, even if you only captured your… your assessment and plan with your AI, if you just said, I'm just gonna repeat what we're gonna plan to do, and you may need to switch
**Jennie Eckstrom: **to English, but just do, like, a quick brain dump so it captures that for you.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe I have to try that.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Because it'll take you probably 90 seconds, I bet.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah, and then the chimer, like, I noticed that the HPI, it's great, it's, like, detailed, and I don't really need to edit that much.
**Florence Shum: **But the AMP tends to be too detailed that I have to edit. Like, guys, you know, why are they repeating? Patient has… presents with X, Y, and Z, and then, like… Right.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **No, I get that. I have let that shit go, is what I've done.
**Florence Shum: **Wow.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Like…
**Florence Shum: **Leave it! Leave it long!
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Like, I'm like, I could give a frickin' whatever. I mean, it is in the note, is it true? Is it a little weird that it's down there? Sure. Do I care? Nope.
**Florence Shum: **You know what? You're right, I think, you know what, I should just leave… you know what, at least the more information is there, okay? It's just that, like, when I'm sending out, I'm feeling like, oh my god, I get tired of reading all the lines, like, when I'm reading my own note.
**Florence Shum: **But I need to be more concise with that, and…
**Florence Shum: **I need to create… and I actually create order sets already. So I create, like, let's say Cervical Ridic, and then it has, like, the stuff that I typically will order, and I just check off what I want.
**Florence Shum: **That is already… the order set's already saved me time, but it's still not fast enough.
**Florence Shum: **Because I still have to put in the blur, but you know what? Maybe I don't need to. I'll just… I should just write something really quick.
**Florence Shum: **Patient with cervical reticulopathy, and that's it, and these are the orders.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So, again, you might, you might… try…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **like I say, at least for right now, if that assessment and plan is something that is taking time, you might try just doing that…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Brain dump with the patient.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Just to capture it all.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah.
**Florence Shum: **I'm gonna have to do that, and I have to remember to use Khmer more.
**Florence Shum: **Just to train it, so that it can really help me.
**Florence Shum: **I think.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah.
**Florence Shum: **So, I think…
**Florence Shum: **If I can finish all my notes and everything before the end, like, before I leave my office.
**Florence Shum: **I feel like at least I have my evenings, like, sort of free. I don't have to, like, really worry about charting. That's, like, really… that's the worst. I can… I feel like I can see 30 patients if I don't have to write notes.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Right? Yeah.
**Florence Shum: **You know?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I was just doing a search to see if there was a…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **A specific AI medical scribe for Chinese language.
**Florence Shum: **Ugh… I mean, they… some of them, like, say that they, you know, offer it, but…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **HEAL iOS, or HealOS?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **which sinks into Athena.
**Florence Shum: **I think I… I… I think I…
**Florence Shum: **someone told me about it, but then I think I might have used it, and also it wasn't…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **wasn't great.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah.
**Florence Shum: **I forgot which one it…
**Florence Shum: **It's okay, I think I'm just gonna concentrate on one, instead of, like, just trying, like.
**Florence Shum: **You know? Yeah. Diffin ones, and then… Yeah.
**Florence Shum: **hopefully the technology improves, and that if I train it, I mean, now what I do, actually, sometimes, like, these Chinese-speaking patients, like, I would…
**Florence Shum: **dictated impression of the MRI findings, right? Like, okay, the MRI… I discuss with patient the MRI shows blah blah blah blah blah. Yeah. I dictated, right? At least I know that part, it's already in the HPI.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah. Yeah.
**Florence Shum: **And how to justify, like, that's why we need now additional imaging, because of blah blah blah, right?
**Florence Shum: **So, something like that, yeah.
**Florence Shum: **that's gonna be what I'm gonna try to work on, and then… because the EEGs and the EMG report, those things I have to do
**Florence Shum: **After patient leaves.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, no, I get that.
**Florence Shum: **You know?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **It's a different sort of block time, right?
**Florence Shum: **Yes. So, like, I still need my thinking time.
**Florence Shum: **like, what… where I can…
**Florence Shum: **thrive… like, I… I feel I can easily sit down just to work on the revenue cycle. Just one or two items can easily take me, like, an hour, you know?
**Florence Shum: **so quick.
**Florence Shum: **Because, like, the more questions I ask, the more I do, I dive into it, then I gotta, you know, figure out more. But I did ask my manager to… instead of me trying to learn how to generate it, you know what? I'm gonna just have her try to do it. It'll be quicker.
**Florence Shum: **Like, I need to delegate more. I don't need to be the only one running these things.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **yeah, I can do it, am I the right person to do it? So it's like a… it's a mini iOS for… or EOS for your practice, right?
**Florence Shum: **Yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **when you're doing something that takes you 2 hours to do, right, is that… is that something that is the best use of your time? Or is there a portion of that that's the best use of your time, but how do we get
**Jennie Eckstrom: **You know, how do we… how do we make sure that as you're using your time, you're either doing it in a revenue-generating fashion, or you're doing that for the business at the highest and best use of your skill set?
**Florence Shum: **Right. Yeah, it's the 20% that…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **the 20%, or even getting more to that. Like, 20% gets you 80% of your returns, or the 1% that gets you…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **1% gets you 50% of your returns? I'm trying to remember. It was, you know, really trying.
**Florence Shum: **20 to 80, yeah, exactly.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, the 80-20 rule, but then there was a 1%, I think it's.
**Florence Shum: **50%.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And so really just trying to find those places, and then find the tools that you need, whether those are humans or whether they're technology.
**Florence Shum: **Right. Yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **To fill in the rest of the blanks.
**Florence Shum: **So, like, so while I was, like, at the game, my daughter, when I'm waiting, because it's, like, very loud, right? Like, I can't really concentrate much, so then I was watching some of the YouTube
**Florence Shum: **things about the AI stuff, I felt like that is almost, like, a little more passive learning that I can listen to, and they're a little shorter, like 10-minute video kind of thing, for, you know, so I think…
**Florence Shum: **everyone is talking about Claude, right?
**Florence Shum: **co-work, and how to integrate… yeah, I just learned about that, too. You can integrate it with your emails, and.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Right.
**Florence Shum: **Things like that. I was like, wow, that's…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **You will be happy to know that actually when my computer rebooted, now I have Cloud Co-work, so that is the newest.
**Florence Shum: **Like, extension. Extension on Chrome?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **You have to download the app.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And then in the app has the co-work.
**Florence Shum: **Okay, but, like, they mentioned… one of the videos said that, you know, you… you, can even create Cloud on Chrome as an extension, so it's working…
**Florence Shum: **All the time, on the side.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **The apps and extensions, yeah, I think when I asked it to get into my… I think I installed it for Excel.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And I… so I… this is the next thing I have to do.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Oh, there is an install for Chrome. Mine is managed by my husband's IT company. I'm not gonna install this right now, but, so I sometimes.
**Florence Shum: **I won't.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **permissions.
**Florence Shum: **I won't.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So he was trying to explain to his staff what I was doing, so…
**Florence Shum: **Oh, okay, got it, yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Okay.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah, and then the other thing I'm doing this week would be, I have, like, a networking kind of event on Thursday with some…
**Florence Shum: **Local private practice.
**Florence Shum: **ECPs, and I invited, like, Physical therapists, like ENT… ophthalmology…
**Florence Shum: **Like, so, just to, like, like, maybe 10 people? 10 people? Yeah, just to…
**Florence Shum: **Get to know other private practice,
**Florence Shum: **you know, physicians for referral, for networking, whatever it may be. Yeah!
**Jennie Eckstrom: **They're all an independent practice?
**Florence Shum: **Yes, so I'm trying to target those.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah!
**Florence Shum: **Yeah, because I feel like they might be more motivated to, like, meet others, like.
**Florence Shum: **I'll solve, right? Like… individual, especially… Solo practice is very lonely.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah, so that's, and most of the people that I invited are solo practice.
**Florence Shum: **So, it'll be interesting.
**Florence Shum: **So I'll let you know how it goes next week.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Huh?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Okay, so for this next week, let's just sort of do an accountability roundup.
**Florence Shum: **Hmm.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Lawrence, do you have… so you have your, you have your group. What… what's on your… you're…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **CEO list for this week that we can help hold you accountable with.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah, getting the clarity, so, like, the… I'm gonna really look at… wait, hold on, let me see…
**Florence Shum: **Boom.
**Florence Shum: **list from you, the revenue cycle management.
**Florence Shum: **I'm gonna pick…
**Florence Shum: **So I think I'm gonna try to finish the service line with my second PA, and then also, like, my… all the tests that we do in the office.
**Florence Shum: **So I actually asked my manager to start doing that, like, because, for example, like, EMG, right? I do EMG, but there are several codes. I do one limb, two limbs, three limbs, 4 limbs, whatever it is, but the time frame, it's similar. So I told her, you know, just…
**Florence Shum: **How many tests we did?
**Florence Shum: **What is the total? So then I know, on average, this is the value of one study.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yep.
**Florence Shum: **So, I'm gonna work on all…
**Florence Shum: **All the services that we do in the office.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Seeds of some grace, too, but… so you might say, let's, you know, you might use your EEG as a service line tool, and getting that average
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Case.
**Florence Shum: **Yes, exactly. Even though, like, the coding is a little bit different, but at least.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yes.
**Florence Shum: **You need to.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **You can sort of then get an idea of, like, what is the value of your time when you're seeing a patient?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yes. And coming up with that hourly metric, so you know, like, if I'm seeing patients, my time is worth this much money. If I'm doing EEGs, it's worth this money. If I'm doing an EMG, which I need to actually physically be present to do that… Right.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **you know, sort of… so that you know how to allocate that. Those are also then numbers that you know as you're… as you're looking at, you know, recruiting somebody, what they can generate as well.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah, and then I think I need to look into the denial reporting.
**Florence Shum: **Cause I actually never really looked into that.
**Florence Shum: **Because I just kind of assumed, like, oh, my manager's going to look at that, right?
**Florence Shum: **But, yeah, I need to see what actually gets denied. I see the A&R, but… You know? Yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **The denials and why, and coming up with your, like, top four to five reasons, right?
**Florence Shum: **I think a lot of it's the ICD-10 code, still.
**Florence Shum: **the coding.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Right, and then giving yourself that feedback, and your PAs that feedback on, hey, these are codes we can use, and these are codes we can't use, and then as you have your billers doing claims, like, they're scrubbing the claims, actually looking for those
**Jennie Eckstrom: **codes ahead of the claim being submitted, so that we can go back and say, hey, this is not a code that's going to go through, is there another code we can use?
**Florence Shum: **Right, right.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **That's how you want to use that data.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah, I need her to be more proactive to let us know, too.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And sometimes that's… that is empowering her to feel like she can say that. Well, one of the things we found with our… with our coders and builders is that they didn't feel like they had the authority to challenge.
**Florence Shum: **the physician?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **They can't change it. Legally, they can't. They are not… but… so they didn't… they felt badly asking a question to say, was this the code you wanted to use? Because they can't suggest a code.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So, but you providing that feedback back to your, you know, your other two PAs, and obviously yourself, and creating that as a database for anybody you bring on, so you can train them.
**Florence Shum: **I mean, it's really ridiculous how my manager picked up that, like, oh, you cannot… we cannot bill…
**Florence Shum: **Tremor with like Parkinson's or something.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Right. It's crazy.
**Florence Shum: **Or, like, cervical radiculopathy with, like, carpal tunnel. What? They're two different things. Someone… so someone cannot have, like, double crush. They can either have cervical radic or carpal tunnel, cannot be both, because then…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **on one claim.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **They could have likely both diagnoses, but you probably couldn't put them on the same claim.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Because they either have a peripheral nerve issue, or they have a certain, you know.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah, so it's like a, you know, E&M visit that we talk about, both things. Yeah. So, you know, that is what she…
**Florence Shum: **told us…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Well, so then what you could always do in that case is if you have enough diagnoses to… to support your claim, you may just pull one of those diagnoses off the claim itself.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **You may keep it in your note, but pull it off your claim.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's what she did, like, she would remove, like, tremor, or something like that, and just keep, like, Parkinson's.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **No, because it's your documentation.
**Florence Shum: **Right.
**Charu Sawhney: **That happens.
**Charu Sawhney: **And I've been realizing, because I'm the one going through my claims, Like, sometimes I'll just…
**Charu Sawhney: **I'll just put 1 through 8 as my diagnosis, and I'm not paying attention to what it is on my claim, but if there is something that's bilateral, I can't put both of them on one claim.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah.
**Florence Shum: **Mmm.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **They want laterality, and that'll kick things out. So…
**Charu Sawhney: **No, no, no, like, they have left and right knee pain.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Right.
**Charu Sawhney: **But I cannot put left and right knee pain in one claim. You cannot bill those two together.
**Florence Shum: **Oh my god.
**Charu Sawhney: **So, you know, so it's kind of like they're saying, oh, if you're…
**Charu Sawhney: **you know, so because both cervical radiculopathy and carpal tunnel cause the same symptoms, so they're like, you can't… it's like… it's like, you can't do that, you can't… it's like…
**Charu Sawhney: **I don't know, which is dumb, but I get what… I get where they're coming from. It's like, oh, you can't have, like.
**Charu Sawhney: **URI, and then cough, and then, you know what I mean? Like, you can't just say the same diagnoses 10 different ways and say that you're, you know, doing a complex visit. So I get it where it's coming from, but I agree that in specialty care, it doesn't really… it doesn't really make sense.
**Florence Shum: **No, I feel like they just…
**Florence Shum: **I mean, it's two different, like, to us, we know it's very different, right?
**Charu Sawhney: **Oh, I agree, I agree, like, somebody has left knee pain from osteoarthritis and right knee pain from, like, an injury. Like, I literally cannot bill.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah. Both of those, like, I have to choose one knee.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **these are… these are the kind of things that, honestly, if you… if you turn it into a game, like, what are the patterns that I have to be watching for so that they can't deny me? I've learned your game, I'm gonna learn your tools.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And, you know, it's sort of like, I don't know if any of you play Mahjong, but when the new card comes out, now you gotta learn 12 different, you know… actually, no, it's like 24 different patterns.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **that are possible, right? So you just…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Learn the patterns and play the game.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I hate to think of it as a game, but there are a lot of things about being an independent practice, and really thriving, is really learning… learning the tricks of the game.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah, you're right, you're right. I mean, just like me sending, like, certain brand name medications, like, I have to… I know I have to send the generic first, and then these reps always like, oh, you're not writing this script. I'm like, yeah, because I can't.
**Florence Shum: **The patient has not tried the generic stuff yet, I can't like it.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Exactly, yeah. So… and we tell the patients, like, you need to try this for a month. You just need to show the pharmacy you have filled it once. Once you have filled it once, then we can switch to something else. We will say it didn't work.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **If it doesn't work. But we know those patterns, and we know how to get around it, so let's also find those tools that we can use, like I said, in the patterns for denials, and how we submit our claims.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **It's not telling a mistruth, right? It's presenting a picture in the way that the insurance, again, algorithms, because you can know that they're using AI to go through things.
**Florence Shum: **or they're…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **having somebody just looking for patterns, like, oh, if there's… if there's two sides of a same joint, then kick it out. They can figure it out later, right?
**Florence Shum: **when, like, Athena or all the EMRs on our end can start doing that.
**Florence Shum: **I click a button, and then… I mean, insurance companies doing that, like, we should be able to do that on our end, too, like, oh, don't call these together. It's gonna get rejected. They do have something like that, I think Athena does, certain extent. I don't know how accurate they are, but I have…
**Florence Shum: **My manager did tell me about that, like.
**Charu Sawhney: **It's in the claim, if you ever… see, because I'm doing this part myself, that's the only reason I know.
**Charu Sawhney: **Like, when, like, I'll have… I'll have claims on hold.
**Charu Sawhney: **And I'll just go through, and I'll be like, why is this on hold? And sometimes it's like a dumb reason, like I forgot to check the patient out.
**Charu Sawhney: **But then a lot of them, I've been like, oh, I can't bill right and left of the same problem on the same visit, even though we talked about it. And I was like, oh, interesting, but once I figured that out, now when I'm billing, I know what to do. Like, now when I'm putting in my CPT codes for a visit, I know not to do that.
**Florence Shum: **Yeah, I think… I think because I haven't…
**Florence Shum: **had to look at that bucket for a while, so then I'm not relying on my manager to do that. But then at the same time, that's why I have to…
**Florence Shum: **not really check her work, but then I need to run that report to see if it's working.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Well, again, just keep… keeping that… just keeping your mindset open of this isn't somebody coming back and taking something from you, it's helping you understand the way they need to see things presented to them, so they're more likely to pay the first time.
**Florence Shum: **Exactly,
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So…
**Florence Shum: **Okay.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Vinika, what about you, my dear?
**Vineka: **I, wanted to, see what my…
**Vineka: **if my Spravado visits, because they have the four extended codes, if they're all being captured. So, I was gonna go back and look at the sheets, because I had her… I'm just gonna have her highlight all the Spravado visits, because the sheet has
**Vineka: **miscellaneous. There might also be a report creation, maybe I'll ask the…
**Vineka: **Audit Biller, if there's a, like, a way to… Just, get…
**Vineka: **to make a list just based on that, and then see if all of these visits are being captured, that way I can tell the biller, like, you know, since you're all… you're gonna be… I hope you're doing appeals, but whatever, we'll find out on Friday.
**Vineka: **this is another thing to add. If it's not paying.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **That's great.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So, just to make you feel better about all of your companies, our company's been around for 35 years, and the agenda items on tomorrow's board meeting are, preclearance, like a, eligibility for insurance.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Again? And, so another system to add on, and the fact that we just found out that, our coding and billing team was not running denials, and was not running appeals, and they were just stacking up.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So…
**Vineka: **Sounds very familiar.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So, again, just… these are not just small clinic problems, these are, you know, all over the place, so…
**Florence Shum: **How many villas do you have?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Well, we have our… our coders, and then we have our billers, so we have…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **We're, we're probably at least one FTE under.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **for our coders, because we're… our claims are usually about 30 days from the visit to when they actually get submitted, even though they're closed. I think we have 4 FTE coders for 20 providers.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And we have, then, I think, 3…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And then the billing that then is posting claims, that is supposed to be when claim denials come back in, then working those denials, and so that's where we've had the…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **There just wasn't the oversight to see that, so…
**Florence Shum: **Hmm, yeah, that's a lot of manpower, especially scrubbing the claims.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, so… Anyway, but I guess just to, like, put us all, like, even as we're aware of these things, and these have been things that I've been, you know, back as… when I was the president of the organization, brought to the forefront and said, how are we running our revenue cycle management? How are we hitting all of these pieces? And as you can imagine, there's a lot of people
**Jennie Eckstrom: **involved. But… so.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **It's… it's an ongoing… it's a work in progress.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Okay. Charu, what is on… What, what, how can we help support you this week?
**Charu Sawhney: **I think I just want to focus on
**Charu Sawhney: **Getting all of my billing codes into my fee schedule.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Kite?
**Charu Sawhney: **So, I can start using them, and these are, like, the…
**Charu Sawhney: **You know, like the GAD and PHQ-9 and the tobacco cessation.
**Charu Sawhney: **Maybe even this consultation one that Vinika talked about today, just…
**Charu Sawhney: **It's a really simple process, where you just add it into Athena, but I… in order for me to build those codes, I have to have it on my fee schedule.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Okay.
**Charu Sawhney: **So I think I want that to be, like, my main priority, and then also just…
**Charu Sawhney: **Figuring out, like, Just basically, no matter what, like, having my notes done within 24 hours, like, just…
**Charu Sawhney: **I, I just… I…
**Charu Sawhney: **It is… I think it's the one thing that brings me the most amount of, like, anxiety and, like, just, like, un…
**Charu Sawhney: **Being unsettled, and like, that something is not right in the world.
**Charu Sawhney: **And, because I keep getting pulled away.
**Charu Sawhney: **for random stuff, you know, I think I just have to…
**Charu Sawhney: **And it's hard for me, because every day's a clinic day right now.
**Charu Sawhney: **So, maybe also trying to figure out a better system of when I have gaps in,
**Charu Sawhney: **I have gaps in the day.
**Charu Sawhney: **like, you know, instead of answering questions from my nurse or my front desk, just saying, like, hey guys, you know, just letting them know, like, hey, if you see that I haven't… if you see that I have notes open.
**Charu Sawhney: **like…
**Charu Sawhney: **Like, I want to finish those, but I… like, maybe being like, okay, I'll talk to you in the afternoon for 30 minutes, when I have a break, not, you know?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And if you train them to do that, and you may just right now start with your daily huddle of, like, this is what today looks like, there is a gap at 2 o'clock for 30 minutes, let's put all… let's have that be the time that we review all of the things that come up.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **If it's a, you know, if it's truly emergent, then pull me away, but otherwise, let's have that be when we circle back.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **You know, or if there's a 30-minute block in the morning, you might, again, look at your… look at your schedule and be an intentional.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **in the morning and communicate that. Like, I am trying to make sure, especially when you're seeing, you know, 8 to 10 patients a day, you want to set those habits and those expectations now, before you're seeing 16 people a day, right?
**Charu Sawhney: **not gonna be Monday.
**Charu Sawhney: **working with Ask Velma to hire a virtual assistant.
**Charu Sawhney: **So, I was wondering, I know, Jenny, you said that we could have, like, a couple of calls.
**Charu Sawhney: **throughout the week, if you can let me know when you're available this week, I would love to…
**Charu Sawhney: **Have you helped me, just kind of go through some of the resumes I'm getting and seeing what I need to look for and how I should bet?
**Charu Sawhney: **for the VAs.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah, let me reach out to you offline.
**Charu Sawhney: **Yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Perfect.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **K.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Good job, guys!
**Jennie Eckstrom: **I'm still working on trying to keep these to an hour, but I just get so excited about everything that you're doing that I'm impossible. So, here we go, 90 minutes again.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Thanks for hanging in there with us.
**Florence Shum: **Thank you so much for your time again.
**Charu Sawhney: **Reasonable.
**Vineka: **Thank you.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Yeah. I, like, I don't… I… I mean, and maybe I'm in my, like.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **jubilant portion of my month, but I just… I'm really excited with
**Jennie Eckstrom: **what I'm seeing in your guys' practice. I'm excited with some stuff that I'm, got.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **sort of up my little sleeves, not Kleenex, so…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **But I want to… I want to use them, like… like, Vinique, I've created a tool to specifically look at Spravata as a service line, and I would love to be able to use some of your numbers to help validate that.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **and use that as a service line. Florence, I'm working on an EMG and an EEG tool as well, so I'd love to use…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **those pieces for you. And, Charu, I've got an APCM based upon our numbers, and how that can turn out some revenue. So again, I've got some fun little…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **little tidbits that I'm…
**Jennie Eckstrom: **That I'm working, really just to give us some more… again, some more clarity into what we're creating, and what that value of that time, and how we can really understand what we're generating, rather than it just being like, and now I moved to this task, and now I moved to this task, right?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So…
**Charu Sawhney: **Yes, thank you, thank you.
**Florence Shum: **Thank you so much.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Alright, next week is a little bit wonky, because I, I'm traveling on Monday, so I am gonna be available on Thursday evening at 6, if that is a time that folks are wanting to meet.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So… .
**Charu Sawhney: **Alright, I think that can work for me.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **and I think it's in… I think I had, jurors, when she sent out the replay email last week, I think she updated the, calendar to reflect that.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Oh, no…
**Charu Sawhney: **I'm gonna be at ACP in San Francisco, so I'll do my best.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **And again, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I just want to have there be availability, I just can't do it on Monday because I'm flying.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **So, so, I don't know, Florence or Vinika, I think…
**Florence Shum: **She has a commitment.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **on Thursday evenings, but…
**Florence Shum: **Yeah, I should be okay on Thursday… Thursday evening, yeah.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Okay.
**Vineka: **What time did you say?
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Same time.
**Vineka: **Yeah, at the same time.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Did that work for you?
**Vineka: **Yes.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Okay, I'm just looking to see…
**Charu Sawhney: **Would that be 4PM or 5PM PST?
**Charu Sawhney: **It's too much for me to commute.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Olympic would be 5.
**Charu Sawhney: **Okay, I should be able to do it, because most of the sessions are over by 5.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Okay, okay. It does not look like it is maybe on the schedule, so I'll touch base with,
**Jennie Eckstrom: **with jurors tomorrow.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **To make sure that that makes it officially to the calendar.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Okay?
**Charu Sawhney: **H.
**Florence Shum: **Good.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Alright! Okay, you guys!
**Florence Shum: **Have a good night, everyone.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Sorry.
**Charu Sawhney: **Bye.
**Jennie Eckstrom: **Take care, bye.